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Freee Travel ?? Not on our service

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Freee Travel ?? Not on our service

Post by Guest » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:00 pm

Hi all.

I wish to stay anonymous due to the position I hold in work 8)

This post only really affects those of you working in and around London and I am writing it as a warning (a friendly one) to you all.

As you may already be aware, the Mayor has granted you all free travel on London Buses. What some of you may not be aware of is the fact that you are NOT allowed any free travel on London Underground; not even if you are in full uniform, chasing one of your suspects through the station or on any type of 'patrol'. Some police officers or your managers try to tell you otherwise, but they do not have any authority to do so.

This, Ironically, INCLUDES BRITISH TRANSPORT POLICE CSO's.

If you enter London Underground without a valid ticket, you are liable to be reported for the offence of fare evasion under the Regulation Of Railways Act 1889 (believe me there are a number of Inspectors that would happily do this).

I can tell you that BTP PCSO's in attendance with BTP Offiers will have no trouble (a brave inspector to report a PCSO in front of a police officer :wink: ) I know of at least two PSCO's that have been reported and prosecuted within the last eighteen months.

I raise this also with you as I, like a lot of my workplace colleuges (spelling) believe you should be given free travel (In Uniform only - not other times as your not police and are of no help off duty) as this can only add to the visible security of the system (besides I've always found the PCSO's v.helpfull and keen when I have spoken at length with them).

So to sum up:
1) You have NO FREE TRAVEL consessions on LOndon Underground at all
2) You should
3) PCSO's have been reported and convicted of fare evasion
4) Lobby your Managers/Senior Officers/Unions to get this ludicrous situation changed.

As a final comment, get the right ticket and dont give the inspector reason to exercise his right to arrest you

Guest

Post by Guest » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:03 pm

Damn I knew I'd forget something :lol:

Some of you have been issued with letters that may state you can have free travel. These letters are for Special Constables and NOBODY ELSE, they are also signed by a person who left the company already,

please, please dont get caught out with these - they are the subject of investigation for fraud/misconduct

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Post by Headset 57 » Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:53 pm

This "ll be interesting as being BTP / PCSO we have been told in training that we can use the brief to and from work ONLY. Now i also know from other BTP / PCSO"s THAT they have been told NOT TO USE it for travel to and from work!!!. I"ve also heard of a letter from a senior officer to that fact!. Now i"ve also got it on the BTP Specials site where an RPI from LUL has confirmed that free travel is ok for both regs / specials, which bears your point out. I know that another BTP / PCSO has been asked to pay whilst on the Heathrow Express ON DUTY in UNIFORM!!!. :evil:

I have a staff travel ticket from Southwest Trains that has been agreed by BTP. I also know that BTP / PCSO"s do use there brief for travel as well. The ACC is trying to agree with TFL and TOC"s and presumably LUL / DLR about the travel for BTP / PCSO"s to and from duty.
At the moment it is a concsession NOT a right of travel. :?
Jeff.
Last edited by Headset 57 on Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Freee Travel ?? Not on our service

Post by Liz » Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:33 pm

Guest wrote:......other times as your not police and are of no help off duty


Thanks for the warning Guest...however, don't quite agree with the above comment.

I don't think that any of us - after assessing risk of course - would ignore something going on. If nothing else we could make a stonking 999 call with all the right information ( I worked in CAD for nearly 8 years and cannot tell how important that is).
I am not young enough to know everthing......Oscar Wilde 1854-1900

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Post by Headset 57 » Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:05 pm

With regards to off duty , yes maybe but you put yourself " on duty " when you intervene!.
Secondly and more importantly to me, i don"t know that many officers ( PC / SC / PCSO ) who use their powers off duty, excepted that we are PCSO"s. I"ve always got the locals to run , if needed and always put it up to BTP or got myself on CAD for it. To be honest most job on the way home would not intervene unless it was absolutely mescessary ( life threatening or public order ); i wait for the locals and let them deal. Not many off duty go as far as arresting people and only do it as a last resort. I wouldn"t want to have to go to my local nick for statements and stuff at 1.00 AM on the way home!. Having said all that, been there , done it and learnt my lesson !... :wink:
Jeff.
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Post by falkor » Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:17 pm

Jeff PCSOs exercising powers under the Police Reform Act must be on duty and wearing the correct uniform to exercise those powers, you cannot be a PCSO off duty OR out of uniform

HOWEVER

PCSOs can resort to plenty of other POWERS e.g. s24 PACE, Breach of the peace etc if off duty

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Post by jonathanjules » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:22 am

o.k. i will try to explain this to btp pcso's
here goes. if you are a BTP PCSO working on the London Underground Area out of Baker Street police Station you are entitled to free travel on and off duity on London Underground , DLR and Croydon Tramlink you will be issued with a Lu Staff Travelcard to operate the automatic ticket gates along with a letter from Transport for London which you must have on you at all times granting you permission to travel. However if you are a BTP PCSO On National Rail i.e London South (Victoria, Waterloo, Charing X) or London North( Liverpool Street Kings X Paddington) You are not entitled to free travel off duity at present this is something i understand is being looked into. you mst have a lu staff travelcard to travel flashing your badge and i.d to trvel for free on the lu off duity without the letter of authority is fare evasion so be carefull any more question i'm happy to help
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Post by kentishman » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:57 am

gee whiz!

Starting to feel sorry for those BTP PCSO's as it all sounds terribly confusing for them. :?
At least in the Met i know where i stand when it comes to public transport.
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Post by Headset 57 » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:42 am

Jonathon,
Yeh that"s what i thought, however i didn"t want to cause too much confusion as its all third party stuff that i"m hearing!. In reverse the same could be said about Lu staff travelling on the mainline without a valid staff ticket. I only show my staff ticket when asked but then will show the brief if tha RPI requests proof. That way i"m not flashing the brief around the carriage too much.

Falks,
Yes i agree with you, and i know we are not on duty out of uniform. I was thinking of my old days as a Parks PC when i could do those sort of things, which is even more reason to be cautious about getting involved.I"ve done more S.24 powers in the last 4 years than i"ve had breakfast.
Cheers all,
Jeff.
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Post by Guest » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:40 am

jonathanjules wrote:o.k. i will try to explain this to btp pcso's
here goes. if you are a BTP PCSO working on the London Underground Area out of Baker Street police Station you are entitled to free travel on and off duity on London Underground , DLR and Croydon Tramlink you will be issued with a Lu Staff Travelcard to operate the automatic ticket gates along with a letter from Transport for London which you must have on you at all times granting you permission to travel.


Sorry Guys I will make this absolutley clear.

YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO FREE TRAVEL

Unless you are given Oystercards with a loaded ticket, I suspect you are being given 'UTS' gate permits (magnetic type plastic tickets) and more than likely an altered 'Specials' letter - THERE ARE NO AGREEMENTS YET FOR FREE TRAVEL ON LUL FOR ANY PCSO's FROM ANY FORCE

This crazy situation is being looked in to, hope we can get this changed for (Iwork in a senior position in TFL Revenue)

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Post by Big Brother » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:53 am

So what if a BTP CSO is chasing a suspect and they board a tube train....? What then?

I'd have thought that because BTP's authority bestrides the transport system and watches over it, it's officers would be permitted to use the transport whilst on duty for any purpose.
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Post by kentishman » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:02 am

Two of my colleagues were alerted to an incident on the Underground by a member of staff. Naturally they went down to investigate ofcourse and to their horror a senior member of staff went on the tannoy system and shouted "Can the PCSO's leave the station as you are not entitled to free travel".
This ofcourse was very embarrasing for them considering the station was packed with commuters and my colleague has since advised me NOT to get involved with anything on the railways. :?
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Post by jonathanjules » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:26 am

this is to the so called tfl revenue protection person ithink you need to get in contact with the British Transport Police London Underground area to get your facts straight their are 20 PCSO on the London Underground and each of us have been issued with a letter from tfl along with a BEARERS travelcard giving us authority to travel free!!!! on and off duity from Transport For London
jonathan jules

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Post by kentishman » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:30 am

I must admit, i always thought BTP PCSO's for the Underground were entitled to free travel.

I know my Insp son who works out of Victoria BR is entitled to free travel on the overland trains with his local train operator.

CONFUSING OR WHAT? :?
Kentishman.

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Post by Guest » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:15 pm

jonathanjules wrote:this is to the so called tfl revenue protection person ithink you need to get in contact with the British Transport Police London Underground area to get your facts straight their are 20 PCSO on the London Underground and each of us have been issued with a letter from tfl along with a BEARERS travelcard giving us authority to travel free!!!! on and off duity from Transport For London


If they are the letters I've seen, they are issued to Special Constables, with the words 'Special Constable' crossed out and the word 'PCSO' written in. They also are signed by a lady that no longer works for TFL. I have spoken to the Head of staff travel travel for TFL over these letters. These letters are altered and not acceptable in any way for travel.

I agree it is outstandingly ludicrous that BTP PCSO's are not (yet) entitled to free travel, but that is the state of play at the moment. All Inspectors have been instructed to refuse access to all PCSO's to the London Underground for free travel. the only exception being when they are accompanied by a Police Officer.

Please remember it is London Underground that decides who has free travel and not any police force. I am sure this will be resolved in the near future, I just wanted you all to be informed of the REAL situation

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