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I.D. CARDS

Police equipment and gear in here please!
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baronsmirnoff
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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by baronsmirnoff » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:48 pm

JEA

Yes I'm not saying that every card will have the right details on, the point is in 2011 the government (if they get their way) will force you to buy a card which as soon as youv'e paid £30 and got your card you can put it in a draw at home and unless you change your job, the only time by law that you will have to show it, you can leave it in the draw for 10 years until you have to renew it,

Most people will have the correct details on their card and for most times when the police will require to see it, ie. motoring offences committed by people like me who still have an old style paper licence a ID card will be better than that, unless you want to pay a few hundred pounds to stop getting a £30 FPN for cycling on the pavement, and should you get some one who you think is giving you a fake ID like now you can detain them 99% of people a PCSO stops will not be the type of preson who will have a fake, unless your beat covers the heart of the nations under world, nothing is fool proof but saying you would not want to check an ID on the remote chance of it being fake
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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by Marlon » Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:41 pm

baronsmirnoff wrote:Marlon

When I asked
What's the point paying for one?
it was a rhetorical question
which I answered a tax on living in this country,


I know, I was agreeing with your question/opinion.

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baronsmirnoff
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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by baronsmirnoff » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:21 pm

Sorry mate but the amout of sarcasm that has crept in over the last few months you can never tell any more
DRINK WAS THE ANSWER BUT I FORGOT THE QUESTION

My spelling is good spelling but the letters sometime wobble and get in the wrong place - Winne The Pooh

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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by JEA » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:34 am

baronsmirnoff wrote:JEA

Yes I'm not saying that every card will have the right details on, the point is in 2011 the government (if they get their way) will force you to buy a card which as soon as youv'e paid £30 and got your card you can put it in a draw at home and unless you change your job, the only time by law that you will have to show it, you can leave it in the draw for 10 years until you have to renew it,

Most people will have the correct details on their card and for most times when the police will require to see it, ie. motoring offences committed by people like me who still have an old style paper licence a ID card will be better than that, unless you want to pay a few hundred pounds to stop getting a £30 FPN for cycling on the pavement, and should you get some one who you think is giving you a fake ID like now you can detain them 99% of people a PCSO stops will not be the type of preson who will have a fake, unless your beat covers the heart of the nations under world, nothing is fool proof but saying you would not want to check an ID on the remote chance of it being fake
I'm sorry, I've got no idea what you're trying to argue now. Why will paying a few hundred pounds get you off a £30 fine for cycling on a pavement? Why do you need to produce a driving licence for this offence, never mind an ID card?

I think I can make sense of your first paragraph. What's the point in having them if they just sit in a drawer for 10 years?! I think the government's plans are a bit more grandiose than that.

After all, this is the government that uses anti-terror cops to arrest opposition MP's just for holding them to account. This is the government that allows the abuse of anti-terror laws to catch people who put their bins out on the wrong day.

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baronsmirnoff
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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by baronsmirnoff » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:36 am

To issue a FPN/PND you have to put on the ticket how you have confirmed the ID of the person so if we are to have to have ID cards this would help, I'm not saying it is fool proof, all I'm saying is a photo ID is better proof than a paper licence
I think the government's plans are a bit more grandiose than that.
From their web site
Using the scheme in daily life
The three examples that follow show just a small range of the day-to-day transactions that can be made simpler and more secure once the National Identity Scheme is in operation.

Proving your age
Collecting a parcel
Transferring money
very grand

You seemed to be obsesed that there will be a flood of fake IDs

As you have said in your post What is the point in them, I agree there is not point in their present conditions except to raise £210000000, and I think the whole idea should be scraped, and with a bit of luck after the next election they will
DRINK WAS THE ANSWER BUT I FORGOT THE QUESTION

My spelling is good spelling but the letters sometime wobble and get in the wrong place - Winne The Pooh

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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by danielswindells » Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:36 pm

No2ID....protesters....grrrr....find something more important to be worried about....bloody lefties! :slgg:

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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by JEA » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:10 pm

baronsmirnoff wrote:To issue a FPN/PND you have to put on the ticket how you have confirmed the ID of the person so if we are to have to have ID cards this would help, I'm not saying it is fool proof, all I'm saying is a photo ID is better proof than a paper licence
But you don't have to have it with you! You don't have to produce it! (unless the government's intention is to bring in more legislation once the initial bill gets through parliament).To quote your earlier post, you can leave it in a drawer for 10 years. So it's not going to be better.


baronsmirnoff wrote:Using the scheme in daily life
The three examples that follow show just a small range of the day-to-day transactions that can be made simpler and more secure once the National Identity Scheme is in operation.

Proving your age
Collecting a parcel
Transferring money
very grand
And the government will have a record of you collecting that parcel, transferring that money...
Of course they can access those records kept by the companies involved already. But they have to apply for it, and only under certain circumstances. To give them unrestricted access makes me shudder.
Once the initial bill is passed they will also be able to introduce, compulsorily and without public consent, new ways the card must be used and new data that must be disclosed when applying for a card.
baronsmirnoff wrote:You seemed to be obsesed that there will be a flood of fake IDs
No, I only meant to illustrate the fact that even one fake card in circulation will undermine the security of the whole system. Especially as the government is trying to sell it to us on the grounds of security.
baronsmirnoff wrote:I think the whole idea should be scraped, and with a bit of luck after the next election they will
hopefully!

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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by baronsmirnoff » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:25 pm

JEA said
Baronsmirnoff said
-
But you don't have to have it with you! You don't have to produce it! To quote your earlier post, you can leave it in a drawer for 10 years. So it's not going to be better
Baronsmirnoff had already said
I would have no objection to having one if you had to carry it, police could demand to see it when an offence had been committed, and the laptop with my details on is not left in a pup or on a train then sold to the Daily Mail by the person who finds it.
If you are going to quote something use the right it helps to back up your argument or in this case not.

Most people carry several forms of ID at the moment so what is the problem having a standardized one if it is both cost effective and secure
DRINK WAS THE ANSWER BUT I FORGOT THE QUESTION

My spelling is good spelling but the letters sometime wobble and get in the wrong place - Winne The Pooh

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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by JEA » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:37 pm

baronsmirnoff wrote: I would have no objection to having one if you had to carry it, police could demand to see it when an offence had been committed, and the laptop with my details on is not left in a pup or on a train then sold to the Daily Mail by the person who finds it.
BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO CARRY IT!!!! You could be the only person in the whole country carrying it!!! Let's all pay billions of pounds just so baronsmirnoff can carry a card on the off chance an officer (who has no power to) asks to see it?!!
baronsmirnoff wrote:If you are going to quote something use the right it helps to back up your argument or in this case not.
This doesn't make sense but I think I can work out the point you're trying to make. The fact that you are "willing" to carry it or produce it DOES NOT counter my initial statement. If it's in a drawer, how can you use it to prove your ID!!!
baronsmirnoff wrote:Most people carry several forms of ID at the moment so what is the problem having a standardized one if it is both cost effective and secure
BECAUSE IT'S NOT COST EFFECTIVE! BECAUSE IT'S NOT SECURE! BECAUSE IT GIVES THE GOVERNMENT UNPRECEDENTED ACCESS TO PERSONAL INFORMATION WHICH CAN BE ABUSED!! BECAUSE IT'S PART OF A WORRYING TREND TOWARDS AN OPPRESSIVE STATE!!!

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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by baronsmirnoff » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:42 pm

Look up IF in the dictionary

I'm glad you were not around when the wheel was invented, we would still be walking
DRINK WAS THE ANSWER BUT I FORGOT THE QUESTION

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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by JEA » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:46 pm

baronsmirnoff wrote:Look up IF in the dictionary
:slwot: :slwot: :slwot:

I'm genuinely confused now and have no idea what point you are trying to make. To which "if" are you referring?

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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by baronsmirnoff » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:05 pm

IF you had to carry it,

IF it was cost effective

IF it was secure

Is that enough IFs or should I go on

I know none are at present but that is the whole point of sqying if

IF you are genuinely confused now and have no idea what point I am trying to make there is no point going on with this or life
DRINK WAS THE ANSWER BUT I FORGOT THE QUESTION

My spelling is good spelling but the letters sometime wobble and get in the wrong place - Winne The Pooh

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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by JEA » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:22 pm

baronsmirnoff wrote:IF you had to carry it,

IF it was cost effective

IF it was secure

Is that enough IFs or should I go on

I know none are at present but that is the whole point of sqying if

IF you are genuinely confused now and have no idea what point I am trying to make there is no point going on with this or life
Steady on, don't kill yourself just because I get confused trying to understand your posts.

You can say "if", but my point is it's "not". No amount of "if"s are going to negate that.

My earlier posts detail the implications of, and try to provide an argument against the very idea of ID cards. Not just how well or badly it's implemented. In my opinion these issues supersede any problems there might be with how it's implemented. I'm not going to list them again you'll just have to re-read (or even just read) them.

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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by unclve vanya » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:22 pm

If ID Cards are to 'go', then I will have up 3 or more 'Official' photo-ID peices of plastic in my wallet. My UK EU 'Approved' ID Card with my photo on it. I will have me 'EU Approved UK Photo-ID Driving Licence', and I will also have me 'Over 60s Photo-ID Bus Pass. So how many other 'pieces of Official plastic' do we need for everyday life....

... all so confusing..... and what about those who are deemed not to 'have their marbles'.....?? :slsic: :slsic: :slsa:
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Re: I.D. CARDS

Post by falkor » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:22 am

28 April 2009
INDEPENDENT HEADLINE
Senior cabinet ministers are privately discussing a plan to scrap the Government's £5bn identity cards programme as part of cuts to public spending, The Independent has learnt.

The ministers believe that some "sacred cows" will have to be sacrificed in the effort to reduce Britain's debt mountain. They are raising fresh questions over the future of the ID card programme as the Cabinet faces renewed pressure to find economies beyond a promised £9bn in "efficiency savings".

"My sense is that ID cards will not go ahead," a senior Cabinet Minister said. "We have to find savings somewhere, and it would be better to shelve schemes like this that aren't popular."

A ComRes poll for The Independent today finds 55 per cent of voters favour public spending cuts to reduce Britain's debts, against 38 per cent who want taxes to be increased. It also finds that the Tory lead over Labour has widened from 12 to 19 points since the Budget.
UK planning forums got a planning application in the UK?

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